Truth, Reconciliation and National Unity Commission hearings |25 June 2020

Three witnesses appear in relation to four separate cases

Three witnesses yesterday appeared before the Truth, Reconciliation and National Unity Commission in relation to four separate cases. There was also a close session under case VW1.

Case 081: Mats Deutschmann (complainant)

The first witness of the day, Dr Maxime Ferrari, appeared before the Truth, Reconciliation and National Unity Commission (TRNUC) once again, this time in regards to the case brought by complainant Mats Deutschmann.

In his complaint, Mr Deutschmann claimed that his parents’ property on Praslin – The Flying Dutchman Hotel – was forcibly acquired by the government in 1981 and the Deutschmann family were given two weeks to leave the country.

The Flying Dutchman, which later became one of the many state-owned nationalised hotels managed by Cosproh (Compagnie Seychelloise de Promotion Hôtélière), was acquired for a sum of R2.5 million. It had ten bungalows sprawled over 16 acres of land.

Dr Ferrari, who was the Minister for Planning and Development at the time, acknowledged that he signed the documents of acquisition but never really knew the reason why the government decided to take possession of the property.

“I am not sure I know why it was acquired although I signed the acquisition, as stated by Mr Grandcourt. I knew that Mr [France Albert] Rene wanted us to take the hotel but I did not know his intention behind this idea,” Dr Ferrari told the TRNUC commissioners.

Nonetheless, Dr Ferrari admitted that some property acquisitions were sometimes undertaken out of malice.

Dr Ferrari noted that he was under persistent pressure from President Rene, during his tenure as minister.

He explained that Mr Deutshmann [Mat Deutschmann’s father] was someone who spoke against the ruling government at the time, and this was not well appreciated by the regime.

He further added that there was a belief that this foreigner, Mr Deutschmann, was talking too much.

And although Dr Ferrari held nothing against Mr Deutschmann personally, Dr Ferrari once approached Mr Deutschmann to advise him not to be so vocal.

“The orders came from above; I signed it but had nothing to do with. All of the things that were said by Mr Grandcourt are true – it was an injustice to someone who had invested in a hotel but at that point I did not really feel this. Later on however, I started reflecting that we should stop taking people’s land […],” Dr Ferrari added.

He further stressed that there was never a clear policy on land acquisition but properties were acquired on a case by case basis.

Dr Ferrari yesterday also took the opportunity to provide some further details on the state acquisition of ‘Cabanes des Anges’ in 1983, a hotel on La Digue which had belonged to Karl St Ange, a former minister in President Rene’s cabinet.

Although he did not know much of the ‘Cabanes des Anges’ transaction, Dr Ferrari recounted that on June 6 or 7, 1984 he went to La Digue with a guest (a certain Mr Rampal) where they attended a ceremony in which President Rene made a brief speech to mark the acquisition of ‘Cabanes des Anges’.

“I remember that there were around 7 to 10 people there, not a lot. Gregoire (Payet) was there of course, but I do not remember seeing him and he did not see me or know who I was. His daughter mentioned that Mr Rampal was there and Mr Rampal was standing right next to me but she did not mention me.”

According to Dr Ferrari, President Rene’s speech said ‘we are here for me to let you know that the government has purchased ‘Cabanes des Anges’ and as from now on it will operate together with Gregoire Island Lodge.’

He also explained to the TRNUC that the government had wanted to acquire the Deltel property at Grand Police, the subject of another complaint brought to the TRNUC, since 1979. This was due to the fact that he was approached by the brother-in-law of Mr Deltel during that year, who stated that ‘if the government takes the Deltel’s property, they would like R3 million’. He however noted he was not involved in the matter and that the acquisition of the Deltel property came after his time at the ministry.

Case 239: Trevor Mein

Case 269: John Both

Witness Guy Roucou appeared before the TRNUC yesterday after he had put in a request to address an allegation that was made against him by John Both.

Mr Both alleged that Mr Roucou as a police officer mistreated him, slapping him twice outside the Barrel discotheque and bar. It was further alleged that Mr Roucou also pulled out his gun and aimed it at Mr Both.

Mr Roucou also responded to allegations brought by Trevor Mein who said that Mr Roucou, in his capacity as superintendent in charge of the internal affairs, had investigated allegations that had said Mr Mein had been drinking in his police uniform.

Mr Roucou joined the police on July 5, 1971 and in 1976 he was transferred to the special force, which is now the public security support wing (PSSW), where he was promoted to the rank of sergeant.

He has also taken charge of the ex-National Guard unit, operation unit as well as prison security control.

“My successes have come with promotions and I successfully climbed the ladder in the ranks of sub-inspector in 1988, inspector in 1991, assistant superintendent in 1993, superintendent in 1996 and chief superintendent in 2007,” Mr Roucou told the commission yesterday. He also read a list of his trainings to demonstrate his qualifications.

Last month, he was posted as a consultant to the commissioner of police.

In regards to the case of Mr Mein, Mr Roucou stated that Mr Mein had slandered his name before the commission, since he insinuated that Mr Roucou was not qualified for his job.

The chair of TRNUC, Gabrielle McIntyre, noted that what Mr Mein had said about Mr Roucou should never had been said, adding that these remarks were not important to the TRNUC since the commission was only interested in the complaints rather than any insults.

Mr Roucou said that, at one point, he was in charge of the internal affairs department responsible for taking disciplinary actions against police misconduct.

He noted that Mr Mein was investigated by several investigators while Mr Roucou was only the chairman of the board that judges the alleged misconducts.

There were usually three senior officers on this board, Mr Roucou continued, and the ‘defaulters’ could always petition to the commissioner of police to allow for their legal representatives to be present.

In the end Mr Mein’s case was not prosecuted since it was considered a weak case, and Mr Roucou said that he read this report to Mr Mein.

“When I read this out, he did not understand so I had to translate it in Creole. He was the dumb one, not me,” Mr Roucou said yesterday.

Mr Roucou added that Mr Mein was reinstated following this final report, so he cannot imagine the reason why Mr Mein would have brought this incident up with the commission.

As for John Both’s incident which occurred in 1983, Mr Roucou said that he was a sergeant at the time and he does not recall hitting any John Both at the Barrel discotheque and bar.

“There were many incidents at Barrel during those times but I do not remember him. He said that the slap caused him to be deaf but at that time I was not a bodybuilder,” Mr Roucou said while also showing a picture of how slim he looked at that time. He noted that someone of his stature could not have caused such irreparable harm.

Case 0149: Rolderick Larue & Maryse Eulentin

Another witness in the harrowing case of Dharmendra Eulentin, brought by his parents, came before the TRNUC yesterday.

Dharmendra was found dead on March 6, 2007 with various signs of disfigurement and torture.

The witness, Daniel Edmond, was the cousin of Dharmendra and both were very close since they were the same age and both hailed from families that were traditionally fishermen.

Mr Edmond himself was a taxi driver and a boat owner during the time when Dharmendra was killed, and he used to meet up with Dharmendra every 7pm to bring him home.

“I recall the week prior to his death, Dharmendra asked me to bring him to Jemmy (Marengo) at Roche Caïman where he handed Jemmy some fish. On the week of his death, on Tuesday, he once again passed by Jemmy’s to bring fish but this time around I did not drive him home that night,” Mr Edmond recounted.

“He made me leave him on the bridge at ‘Kosovo’. I found it strange that he was so close to Jemmy and I asked him, on that Tuesday, about his relations with Jemmy and he told me that Jemmy was helping him get a flat.”

The next day he went to pick up Dharmendra early in the morning, at his place of residence at Belvedere, but Dharmendra never came out and Mr Edmond could not reach him on his phone.

“Nobody came out even after 10 minutes of me hooting my horn, not even his wife, and I did not go check if he was there. I left and when I reached Roche Caïman where my uncles, cousins and brothers usually wait for us to go out and raise the fish traps, I told them I had not seen Dharmendra.”

No one could reach Dharmendra on that day and the following day they learned that his body had been found in the sea.

Elsie Pointe